Thread: 2nd or 3rd normal form

Hey everyone its peeb, hope all is well with everyone. You guys have been in the IT industry or programming industry longer than I have. I've been programming now for a little over 2 years, started as a college intern and then got hired on to my current job. I've build some pretty nice .net apps since I've been here and i'm still learning.

I'm in the process of building a huge .net application and i'm bumping heads for the first time with my boss on how I should build the database. He wants me to build it in 3rd normal form; he feels all application should be build this way no matter what, etc. I feel with this app, it's more efficient working with the application build in 2nd normal form. That way the selects, the updates and delete queries won't be so complicate to write.

I've tried to research online to find stuff to show that 3rd normal form is not always the best way to build database for an application. I feel it depends on the type of application you are building.

Now I may be wrong, my boss has been in the industry longer than I have.

Below are the database model for the app, 3rd form and 2nd form. I would like you guys suggestions, should I build it my way in 2nd form for more efficient update, selects, and delete queries, or do it the 3rd normal form per what is recognized as the right way to build a database.

(I saw AOG13 posting, i'm just looking for a suggestion)


My bosses way 3rd normal form
http://users3.nofeehost.com/peebman/...dba3rdform.jpg

My way 2nd normal form
http://users3.nofeehost.com/peebman/...dba2ndform.jpg

Again i'm still learning, so if i'm like totally wrong and way in left field, let me know.

Thanks

Peeb

Thanks, I have 35 questions, i'm building a small practice db now in 3rd form to get a feel for how i'm going to code it with the db built this way.

Originally Posted by AOG123

3rd normal form imo as the most logical aproach.

Although you may find benifits from 2nd normal form in preventing dupicate resonces per user ID on questions,. but that wouldn't be very efficient if you had 100 questions

that said,. there always more than one way to skin a cat.

Your boss is right. The "normal forms" (up to 5th!) are the foundation of relational database design. There certainly ARE specific situations in which you can gain performance with really large (gigabyte size) databases by "denormalizing", but these cases are best analyzed by a VERY experienced database developer who understands the trade-offs in detail.

All this "normal form" stuff comes from the fact that relational database theory was developed by Dr. E. F. Codd, a mathematician at IBM in the 1960's. These "forms" are a set of rules that insure that your data will be compatible with the rules that underlie how SQL instructs a database engine to process records. Virtually every relational database software in the world relies on these rules. It is not a matter of preference, it is a matter of following rules that guarantee that your SQL will always work. Sometimes beginners try to "outsmart" the rules, and sometimes they get away with it--for a specific application. But it's like playing russian roulette. Keep doing it and someday your luck will run out.

Don't you just hate it when the boss is right?!

Okay cool i'll take a look at it. Thanks.

Originally Posted by jmurrayhead

Peeb, not sure where you are at with this survey application, but check out this link: ASP.NET: ASP.NET 2.0 Instant Results - Book Information and Code Download - Wrox

Search for "Wrox Survey Engine".

If you can follow this type of model and modify it to your needs, you should have a pretty kickin' survey system.

Hey jmurrayhead on the wrox survey engine, how easy do you think it would be for editing?

One thing with this survery is that the client wants users to be able to edit their answers. I was practicing with using a datalist control, but how the db is set up in 3rd form its hard to pin point what answer is being updated, because of the multiple answer id's. You know what i'm saying or am I sounding crazy.

But this is probably the main part that I'm a little afraid of, but I'll have to tackle it.

Originally Posted by peebman2000

Okay cool i'll take a look at it. Thanks.